Simple Math: The Truth about Vector Marketing

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Simple Math: The Truth about Vector Marketing

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Written by Bardia Sinaee

Monday, 30 June 2008 19:00

Like any student preparing to pay next year’s tuition, I’m always ready to jump at the opportunity to make great money at a part-time job. This is why an ad on my local newspaper’s website caught my attention.

Vector Marketing’s ad opened with “ATTENTION STUDENTS” and prominently promoted the company’s “flexible openings, scholarship possibilities, opportunities for advancement, renowned training program, [and] $16.00 per appointment base pay.” But I found their two-line job description – customer sales/service – to be rather vague.

Nevertheless, I called and was given an interview date immediately.

The entire process seemed too perfect. A search on Facebook revealed dozens of anti-Vector groups – one with over 500 members – littered with young adults’ personal accounts of losing time, money, and even friends while working for the corporation. A Google search found a 1992 survey of 940 Vector recruits which revealed “that almost half either earned nothing or lost money working for Vector."

By the time my interview came around, I understood that the company’s basic business model involves hiring students to buy or borrow demonstration knives from Cutco Cutlery and then sell them as independent contractors.

I found the regional headquarters of the multi-million dollar corporation in one of the poorest areas of the city. Their stuffy unit was on the second level of a small building, next to a Dollarama and a modest bankruptcy firm. A piece of paper with the Vector Marketing logo was taped next to the door.

Inside sat 20 other people aged 17 to 25 eagerly filling out applications. Having already decided against the job, I wanted to find out if the company would hire a candidate that was bound to fail at the position. I wrote that I was under 18 years of age, did not have access to a vehicle, and had not graduated high school.

I was called into a small office where the manager skimmed over my application, asked me for my resume (which I did not bring) and immediately told me that I had been selected for a second interview in the main room.

In a space no bigger than a bedroom, and in the absence of air-conditioning, the district manager told all 21 of us that Vector had sold over $200 million for Cutco in the past year. This presentation was the second interview.

After talking about company history and the importance of ethics, he eventually started selling the product to us. He even cut a penny with an $80 pair of shears – a demonstration met with ‘oohs’ and ‘aahs’ from the audience.

By selling the products, he was selling the job. The manager talked about the benefits of being an independent contractor: setting appointments whenever you’re free, working as much or as little as you want, and Vector’s relaxed approach. He also boasted a new base pay of $19 per appointment. “Let’s say they do 20 appointments in a week,” he explained, “19 times 20, this representative will make $380 regardless of sales.”

Of course with independent contractors, the important question remains, where do the appointments come from? The manager recommended asking each client to suggest five new ones, “We have reps that have been in an area for quite a long time… and they meet a lot of people. For example if it’s 25, 25 times 5 is what?” Several voices from the audience answered eagerly, and he continued, “Exactly, 125. So reps very quickly have plenty of people to see.”

The math seemed simple.

But I would later meet employees outside the building who were going in for a meeting, and their experience had not been so simple. One, a recent high school graduate, had had only six appointments in the last two weeks.

Apparently, family members may be supportive, but strangers are not all excited about letting teens into their homes with very sharp and expensive knives for long periods of time.

Another Vector employee, a 19-year-old university student from Mississauga, told me about her experience on the condition of anonymity. “I actually like the product,” she explained, “which is why I decided to give this job a shot."

Bardia3 Her time with Vector had not gone as advertised. “Be prepared to get nagged by the office,” she warned me, “you're supposed to call in for a PDI [Personal Daily Interaction] every morning between 8 and 9.” Contrary to the low-key approach stressed during the interview, each morning “the manager asks how many appointments you had yesterday, how many today and how they went and all. Also there are two weekly meetings that you don't get paid for because ‘you benefit from it, not the company’.”

“They're really careful with how they word things so that it seems like they're not controlling you,” she continued, “For example: selling you this job by telling you that you're your own boss.… Well, truth is, straight from the horse's mouth, ‘meetings are mandatory for success’ and if you choose not to do these mandatory-for-success things, which take up a lot of your personal time, then you're ‘not driven for success’ and therefore the company no longer wants you. So you'll most likely get fired.”

Her statement triggered questions about just how ethically the company advertises its sales approach to young employees. “There were a couple of misconceptions, such as the term ‘low key approach.’” She explained, “My thought was, all right, I don't mind sales if you don't pressure the buyer. You'll soon learn, though, that the script requires you to drop down [prices], so when they say no to the Homemaker [Knife] Set you bring it down… and of course the no's just become redundant.”

There are also some Cutco customers who have experienced similar pressure. I spoke with a part-time teacher and mother of four whose nephew had been hired to sell Cutco knives in the early 1990s. She purchased a set, she explained, “because he was my nephew, and we felt like we needed to support his entrepreneurial efforts.”

But her relationship with Cutco did not end there. “Ten years later we got a phone call, [asking] would we like to have our Cutco knives sharpened, so they’d obviously kept our names on file.”

Bardia2 After she had agreed to the free sharpening service, “the guy came to the door and he had all of these knives that they sell and he proceeded to start the entire sales pitch over again right from the beginning, as if I had no idea what the product was. So each knife came out, and I had only agreed to have these things sharpened…. And he had to tell us what each one was for and this went on an on for, like, an hour at least.” Though he did eventually sharpen her knives, and she described Cutco as a very good company with good knives, she also felt “it’s the approach that’s objectionable.”

The employee that I had initially talked to was right: the company’s approach is not as low-key as advertised. But her story led to a more troubling question about Vector’s reliability as an employer.

She told me about a horrific experience in her first week, “I ended up cutting myself during the leather demo…. I'll never make back the amount of time I had to spend in the emergency room and the amount of pain I went through and the stuff I can't do. ER couldn't do much either since [the wound] couldn't be stitched closed.”

Hearing her story, it seemed that she was trapped in her job. “It's harder to find another job because I'm limited as to what I can do. I have to keep it dry so it makes life more difficult than you can imagine. And, as an ‘independent contractor’ you don't get worker's compensation.”

A company that does not stand by its own employees, I thought. Does it get any worse? Then I met Trevor Kemp, a Western Virginia University grad student who had two friends who had worked for Vector, and one had listed him as a reference. He told me about their experience with Vector: “They both had a pretty terrible time. They hated the job every day they worked it.”

But his story took an interesting turn: “Vector called me one evening, about eight hours after my friends took their demo knife sets back and quit. Vector explained to me that my friend was doing wonderfully at her job and had listed me as a college student who could use some extra money.”

What Vector did was not illegal, but their lack of honesty towards the friend of an employee is, at the least, very unethical.

Back at my own interview, I sat in the smaller office. The person next to me was nervously mumbling to the manager about needing money for university. After a few minutes he smiled and handed us both an official Vector job offer sheet that mentioned neither our names nor his, and the trail of adhesive along the top revealed that it had been ripped from a pad containing many of the same. He scheduled my three days of unpaid training and I left.

As I waited outside, everyone that left after me had also gotten an offer.

Some have called Vector Marketing a complete scam, but I respectfully disagree. The company’s recruiting and sales methods involve nothing illegal.

However, their approach to employees and customers alike is an amalgam of half-truths and empty promises. It takes very questionable ethics to lure in naïve teenagers desperately in need of money.

“For some people, this is a great opportunity,” the Vector employee from Mississauga explained, “but for that to happen, you need to have the right contacts, the time, the transportation, the attitude and the gas money.

In the end, the employees most likely to make money from Vector are those who already have a lot of it.

© 2008 Bardia Sinaee; licensee (Cult)ure Magazine.
This is an Open Access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0 ), which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

This article belongs to the Stripped Issue.

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hello :)

August 09, 2009

Votes: +2

SCAM!

I had an awful experience with them. Just being kicked out of my parents house and laid off of the job I had, I am broke and almost homeless. I decided to look on the Internet for local jobs hiring and found vector. I called in and was set up for an interview 5 hours later. having to ride my bike 6 miles I left really early and had about 30 minutes to waste so I sat behind their building and used my itouch to steal their wifi and research the job. I found this page and read it right before my interview. Feeling very discouraged I lost all motivation for the job but went anyways to see if it wasn't as bad as it sounded. I had gotten there and spoke to the receptionist who gave me a piece of paper that I had to fill out. Promptly after, I had spoken to the manager who looked at my halfway completed application and said I had passed screening and that he would see me at the second interview that would take about an hour. Now since i had already done some reading about this interview and knew what was going on I kept cutting the manager off in what he was saying and finished it for him. Then he went on to say the handles are made out of the same stuff as bowling balls which is a flat out lie. Then he asked me to help with the demonstration using an old knife and do push down on a piece of leather that he was holdng. Resisting the urge to shove it in his neck I agreed, now this knife was rusty and extremely dull so I put all of weight into it and shoved his arms straight to the table. From then on it wasn't that bad, until he informed us all something that made everyone twitch. We needed to pay HIM 170.something to work!!!!!!! Come on if I was going there for a job obviously I'm broke, if I had that money it would not be going to that [removed] it would be going to my 2 month late rent or maybe food. And to add insult to injury after the hour long presentation he called me back into his office and basically told me I had one week to come up with the cash or I will be "inefficient salesman because I will not have personal experience with the knives and will not have the demo set to show a customer therefore I can not work" AND THEN had to make another 6 mile ride home up hill after dark and windy as all hell..... I will not be going back for the other training sessions, rather I will spend that time walking up and down main street looking for a better job. The only thing good that came out of this was now I don't have to be afraid of an Interview. Sorry if the spelling or grammer is bad on this, but touchscreens are hard to type on lol

Sent from my iPod

Margot Parsons

April 22, 2010

Votes: -2

Get over yourselves

Vector Marketing is a great company. Im going to be an assistant manager this summer, and if it wernt for Vector, i would still be doing nothing with my life. You people are all angry becasue you didnt have the will power to stick with it and fight through the hard times, or maybe your just a bad sales person. I am really sick of hearing about people basing Vector. I have made 10,000 over the past 6 months, im making more than my parents make right now.

Chadd

June 03, 2010

Votes: -1

Amen to that!

I'm an Assistant Manager right now and I've been with the company for over a year. I absolutely love it. I completely stand behind our recruitment methods. The key word most Vector-bashing wimps seem to miss here is "opportunity." We promote an unprecedented opportunity for experiential and financial growth unlike any other. Is it hard work? Hell yes!! It's a massive challenge! But what other working environment can College kids go where their hard work is rewarded. You can bust your tail in retail all you want, and in 6 months you might get a 50 cent raise. In my opinion, THAT'S a SCAM. Vector Marketing is all about providing students with the opportunity to develop skill sets that will last a life time and be an asset to any professional field. AND provides a unique pay structure where hard work is ACTUALLY REWARDED. I hate Vector bashing sites, in the words of Margot- GET OVER YOURSELVES. don't feel like working hard and fighting through challenges in life? Go work for min wage in retail, and look forward to a life where raises are smaller then my pocket change- Nuff said.

Chadd

June 11, 2010

Votes: +2

Skeptical

I got the same letter and I have applied for a position at Vector. I haven't called to schedule an interview because I have some doubts about the company, which is normal. I have done my research. I searched "do vector sales reps have to have their own transportation?" on google and I found a lot of results, most of which said negative stuff about Vector. I also looked on both cutco and Vector sites to learn as much as I possibly could about the company. They seem to spend more time informing you about their knifes than the sales position. If you have already scheduled an interview, my advice is to have a boatload of questions for the them.
I have worked in retail, however, and it is very easy. And working for six months to get a 50 cent raise is not a scam. It is just a ploy that companies use to keep employees working for them (for a long period of time).

July 08, 2010

Votes: +1

My Opinion

I just started working for the company. Honestly, it wasn't what I was expecting... I assumed that I would be managing already pre-qualified customers and making some phone calls, I also half expected to go through my own networks but I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case. In the end,I learned what the job entailed (making my own phone calls and conducting my own appointments through my network) so in that respect I was let down. However, their referral system is pretty brilliant so it's not like you'll run out of customers.

Is it a scam, though? You pay for your knives, but folks lets not forget that it's a DOWN PAYMENT and that you can return it for the full refund. Honestly, not that big of a deal if it's not your style of business, so in that respect it's not a scam. I understand their interview process, and while there's a lot of beating around the bush and time waisting the opportunity is, I believe, real.

The knives are awesome btw, I know I'm a customer even if I don't continue with them as a sales rep. As for the quality compared to the value/price, I'd say it's definitely worth it asap so that you'll never need another knife again. I'm not preaching this for any other reason other than I really, REALLY do like those knives (My bro is an amateur blacksmith, and he liked the quality as well.)

I wouldn't call it a job either. You're really the one in charge, and the first few weeks are hell as you try to build up your momentum. And yes, if you want to succeed you better put yourself into the positive environment and get a clue. If you read any book on becoming a success, talk to any successful person,you'll hear the same - positive environment is key. So those none paid meetings are for your benefit, honestly, if you are willing to go. Until then, everyone is just waiting for you to take ownership over your career.

If you're going to feel guilty about selling a set of high quality knives to your friend's parents, then this probably isn't your thing. Really though, you do get paid just for the appointment, and it's all a script so you shouldn't feel bad to just read the damn thing and get through the appointment. Keep it fun, they'll have fun, and even if it's a no sale you'll at least be on the road to the next one. So really, the sale is about your attitude anyway.

My one story is this. I saw kids who were fresh out of high school, and me who is fresh out of college, and these kids had such LOW communication skills that I couldn't believe they were involved with sales, and they were making oogles of cash in just a few weeks. We're talking several thousand dollars in under a month. Did they work their asses off for it? Most likely. But guess what? I figure that if some zit faced half retarded idiot could make that kind of money, then their sales system had to be 1) Simple 2) Duplicatable and 3) that if they could do it, I DEFINITELY could do it better!

If you're an vector sales rep or evaluating the job, do yourself a favor. Stick with it and see if you like it, or at the very least if you'll be able to make the kind of money your hoping to be making with it. You can definitely expect that some people will have an opinion about what you're doing, but if you're confident in the product and in yourself then you're bullet proof. Keep yourself positive and do your best, because if you stop doing either of those two things then your success in ANYTHING to do with life is not going to be guaranteed.

I wish everyone the best of luck in their endeavors.

anon

September 13, 2010

Votes: -3

Scam

These people (Vector Marketing SNAKES) are pretty bad. No, not cult of scientology bad (they don't have prison camps @ gilman hot springs or a paramilitary "sea org") but do I consider them a cult?

Mildly, yes.

It's bizarre but true that they baby sit message boards in an attempt to silence the truth about their scam.

- Cult researcher.

February 22, 2011

Votes: +2

the truth behind vector

i have had a wonderful experience with vector marketing. The resume i have now is so awesome i have been offer 4 salary jobs outside of vector and a 3 management opportunities within the company. The job is not for every one, but if you follow the program you will be successful. My story is one filled with adversity brought on by me not following the program. I did not come from money but this job has taught me the know how to manage it. i recommend this job to all my friends, and my prayer is for each of them to have the resume i do, if they stick with the company or not. i want to teach them every thing i know and help them the whole way through, matter a fact i do the same offer to representative of the company that is following the program. i tell each of them i am only a phone call away! i am a living testimony those who talk to their managers the most sale the most. important PDI! rather call in every day than go in to the office after every appointment i live 54 miles from my office one way.
by the way, most people that take the time to wrote blogs about the company have short stays or never started, just like the person in the first blog comment i read. "if you base your life off others you will never live your own!" Talk about ethics this is the terms of usage for this blog, "By submitting your comments we reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to change, modify, add, or delete your comments and portions of these Terms of Use at any time without further notice." i wonder how many people are and were like me tell the truth about vector marketing and the page took it down!

Adam Armstrong

December 02, 2011

Votes: +1

The truth about Vector? More like the BS about the website.

The thing people need to realize is that the news and the media don't care about truth. They care about ratings and viewership, and they will say whatever it takes to get the most people to tune in, regardless of whether or not what they're saying is actually true.

When it comes to companies and businesses, saying negative things about them will always generate more viewers and higher ratings than saying positive things. It's sad that the media can't be trusted to provide truthful, accurate, and unbiased information, but that's just the way things are, unfortunately.

As for the anonymous 19-year-old university student in the article, it sounds to me like she was just bad at selling, at tried to blame that shortcoming on the company.

It's not the company's fault if you're a bad salesman. The fact that this anonymous girl felt uncomfortable with down-selling (offering cheaper products if the customer doesn't want the most expensive one) only proves that she simply wasn't a good salesman.

The first rule of being a good salesman is to never take "No" for an answer. That doesn't just apply at Vector Marketing, that's every sales position in every company on the face of the Earth. If you're willing to accept a "No" the first time you hear it, you'll never make it in sales, regardless of whether you work at Vector or anywhere else.

If you're more concerned with whether not the customer likes you than whether or not they buy the product, then you probably shouldn't even be in sales in the first place. The purpose of sales is to sell products, not make friends.

And the fact that she cut her finger during a demonstration was also obviously her own fault. I used to work at Little Caesars Pizza, and one day I accidentally cut into the tip of my left index finger while using a knife to slice open a bag of tomato sauce (to this day I still have a scar from it). But did I try to blame Little Caesars for the fact that I had cut my finger on the job? Absolutely not! I took responsibility for my own actions, and realized that I had no one to blame but myself for my little mishap. Little Caesars didn't cut my finger - I cut my own finger by being careless with the knife. That's nobody's fault but my own. The anonymous girl in the article should really learn to take more responsibility for her own actions.

Also, if you're flat broke and in desperate need of money right away, then it's probably not a good idea to get a full-time job as a salesman with any company, unless of course you know you're already a good salesman. But if you're still new and still need to learn how to sell effectively, then you should get a second job with an hourly wage while you learn how to sell. Once you've mastered the art of selling, then you can do it full time.

If a sales job is your only source of income, and you don't know how to sell, that will create a situation of desperation for you, and fill you with anxiety and fear, which in turn will only inhibit your ability to sell, thus making you even more desperate. No one wants to buy anything from a desperate salesman, and your fear will only compound the situation and make it worse.

In the end, in order to be successful at Vector Marketing, you need to either be a good salesman, or at least be willing to learn how to become a good salesman. Vector Marketing will give you all the tools and training you need to accomplish that, but ultimately it's up to you to determine your own level of success.

Mike D

January 25, 2012

Votes: +0

My $0.02

I've been working for Vector/Cutco for about a month now. I've known about the company for close to a decade because my cousin worked for them, and I've read pages upon pages about them online. My friend from high school recruited me because he thought I would be good at the job. This is important. If you have no sales experience and poor communication skills, this is NOT the job for you.

I'm only 21 years old, but I've had 5+ jobs in my life so far from working at Home Depot to running my own small businesses (photography and house painting) and I have experience in sales, customer service, the whole shebang.

Therefore I knew I would be able to make money with Vector. The unpaid training kind of sucks and is boring as hell, but I'm fortunate enough to work in one of the best offices in the country (Oak Brook/Elmhurst, IL) and my boss, the district manager, is a very down-to-earth guy.

In the past 3 weeks, I've sold close to $3k worth of Cutco and have made an average of $100-150/week. Once I hit 20% commission I figure I'll be making around $200 a week for less than 10 hours of work.

All in all, I love the job. I have very little responsibilities and I don't spend more than $20 in gas per week. I make my own schedule and I get to sit down and talk to great people who usually end up placing an order. You do the math. If it sounds like something you would like, I highly recommend Vector for a part-time or full-time job.

Christopher

February 14, 2012

Votes: -1

$20,000 a year ??? ...big deal.

Dear Margot, First I want to assure readers that there is no shame working an entry level job - You gotta start somewhere. However, your comment had a bragging tone to it. 10,000 over 6 months is nothing to brag about. If this is all your "will power" got you, you have a below average level of will power. If this is all you earn as an "Assistant Manager" you are being cheated. I'm low man on the totem pole at my work, which requires brief training and fewer skills, and I still make more than you. Sorry I have to be the one to bring it, but, Margot, you need a serious reality check. Vector only wants to use you to make a profit and give you as little as possible in return. Please quit this job and go do something with your life.

Margot Parsons' Comment:

Vector Marketing is a great company. Im going to be an assistant manager this summer, and if it wernt for Vector, i would still be doing nothing with my life. You people are all angry becasue you didnt have the will power to stick with it and fight through the hard times, or maybe your just a bad sales person. I am really sick of hearing about people basing Vector. I have made 10,000 over the past 6 months, im making more than my parents make right now.

Kellery

July 08, 2012

Votes: +0

To Christopher

Dear Christopher, first I was to assure Margot that there is no shame doing what she's doing- she's al least doing something. However, your comment had a condescending tone to it. Low man on the totem pole is nothing to brag about. If this is all your "reality check" has got you, you must have very low prospects on life. If you are concerned purely about what you earn while residing in your current staff position, you are cheating yourself. I'm an Advanced Sales Rep and Key Staff Member at Vector, which requires extensive training and marketable skills, and my job title is more impressive than yours. Sorry I have to be the one to bring it, but, Christopher, you need a serious reality check. You are a low profile worker ant with a unsatisfactory resume whereas I have already had 2 decent job offers offering me more than what I am paid here. Yet I push on for better experience. Please quit posting like you are the king of the internet, and do something with your existence. smilies/angry.gif

Gonzo

October 23, 2012

Votes: +0

To Kellery

Dear Kellery, I'm sorry that you have no shame. That you are good in manipulating people, that don't really have money, to buy knives. You like greed know this, when someone quits the whole office starts calling that person names. Everyone these days only care for themselves. Vector is full of greed, knows how to manipulate people, and overall not a scam but on the edge of it. Good for you getting offered 2 "decent jobs", but Kellery, you need a serious reality check. If you are proud of your pitiful, manipulative, making people feel sorry for you with lies work, then this shouldn't bother someone as low as you. In matter a fact the Vector Community. Hey all companies are like this.

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